Curse

Dubstep · Feb 24, 2012, 11:25 PM // 23:25

So, I've finally gotten ALL the skills to run the 7 hero player support build from GWPVX, and I've been running a Life Transfer build that with the help of fellow guru's. I've grown bored beyond all beliefs on it already, so I've thought why not support the minions while being able to dish out some damage with a spear, and throw in some conditions.

My main skills I want to use for the build is "Go For The Eyes!" and "Incoming!". But "Incoming!" Is just an idea for the elite, but my heroes already use "Fall Back!" all the time, any ideas on what elites would be viable? Other skills that sync well with "Go For The Eyes!"?

-Thanks!

OChunx · Feb 25, 2012, 12:09 AM // 00:09

I feel like supporting the minions isn't the best thing to do with the command line. I personally am a minion bomber command hybrid, but I use party support, e.g. Stand your ground, never surrender/fall back.

If you want to offensively support something with the command line, supporting spirits would probably be better. Anthem of Envy makes them do a lot more damage and Anthem of Weariness inflicts weakness.

Don't waste your elite on incoming, just don't. Bottomline is the most worthwhile use of a necromancer is simply to be a MM, or even a rit healer. SS is okay, but in the mesmer heavy meta, it just has horrendous synergy. Since you've already tried MM and SS (from your other thread), the only semi-optimal builds you could use are spirit spamming or AP caller.

LifeGoesOn · Feb 25, 2012, 12:29 AM // 00:29

Don't waste an elite on incoming, used to be okay but not now as it was nerfed like most paragon skills ;/

Kunder · Feb 25, 2012, 12:41 AM // 00:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by OChunx

If you want to offensively support something with the command line, supporting spirits would probably be better. Anthem of Envy makes them do a lot more damage and Anthem of Weariness inflicts weakness.

GFTE + Minions adds a lot more damage than AoE + spirits does. AoE is hardly even worth using until you have multiple spirit poopers.

Still not that great of an idea to main command. Better off to run actual necro stuff with a small splash for Stand your Ground/Fall Back. Spears are bad enough as it is on Paragons, using them with Necros is even worse.

KotCR · Feb 25, 2012, 10:16 AM // 10:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kunder

GFTE + Minions adds a lot more damage than AoE + spirits does. AoE is hardly even worth using until you have multiple spirit poopers.

Seconded. Like most nerfed Paragon skills, Anthen of Envy is limited in application. It's usually used when a Paragon needs some more shout-spam for energy management (that still does something), but already has GftE. GftE is more spammable, less conditional, and has more synergy with other skills or abilities allies in the team may use.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kunder

Still not that great of an idea to main command. Better off to run actual necro stuff with a small splash for Stand your Ground/Fall Back. Spears are bad enough as it is on Paragons, using them with Necros is even worse.

There is some applications for Spear on a Necro. Chest Thumper makes for a spammable Deep Wound (spammable enough to be useful in PvE also) when combined with Weaken Armor. Disrupting Throw might have general application for the occasional interrupt (though if you just wanted a 'rupt, Bows or Mesmer signets/spells would be better), and Stunning Strike could have the odd niché use against those really powerful Elementalist bosses or really tedious Monk bosses.

As for speccing into Command, agreed that you're better off just doing it for the odd support ability, not using up more than 3 slots or so on your bar. The ones worth bringing, with a spec of 10 in Command are Never Surrender, Fall back!, Find Their Weakness and Stand Your Ground. Godspeed could have use as alternative to Fallback if your team is running alot of enchantments, such as a Bonder Monk, chained Aegis, or Necromancer Orders. GftE! could be useful with Minions, though as a Necro you might have better options for increasing their damage output (as Paragons themselves mostly use it for the energy gain from Leadership), but then I suppose if you are going to be thwacking things with a Spear you may aswell use your adrenaline for something.

None of the Command Elites are worth bringing (granted, Crippling Anthem, like Anthen of Envy, is fun with multiple spirit spammer characters). If you really want a Paragon elite, the only ones really worth bringing are the Condition Removal ones (IJaFW, SoP, Cautery Signet), which are only neccessary in some PvE areas, and are mostly Motivation specced (though they do work well at low ranks of Motivation). Of these only "It's Just a Flesh Wound" should be used on a Necromancer, Song Of Purifications is more for a Paragon to gain energy as they remove mass conditions (also because Paragons can potential pump adrenaline to power it very fast), and Cautery Signet's only real use ever since it's nerf, has been for the fight against Abaddon at the end of Nightfall, the other two will otherwise outperform it rather massively due to the recharge time.

OChunx · Feb 25, 2012, 05:25 PM // 17:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kunder

GFTE + Minions adds a lot more damage than AoE + spirits does. AoE is hardly even worth using until you have multiple spirit poopers.

Well he does have multiple spirit poopers since he states that hes using 7 hero player support. Therefore he should have at least 8 spirits up at once, about the amount of minions that should be running around. With the combination of anthem of envy and anthem of weakness, it seems better than just gfte on minions alone (which should be dying off fast anyway to take advantage of death nova.

Of course I agree with you that a spear chucking command necro wouldnt be the best thing to run in the first place.

Kunder · Feb 25, 2012, 08:09 PM // 20:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by OChunx

Well he does have multiple spirit poopers since he states that hes using 7 hero player support. Therefore he should have at least 8 spirits up at once, about the amount of minions that should be running around. With the combination of anthem of envy and anthem of weakness, it seems better than just gfte on minions alone (which should be dying off fast anyway to take advantage of death nova.

7 hero player support can be anything. I have no idea what his build is. GFTE is pretty much always better than Anthem of Envy. In any case it doesn't matter, anything with a MM + GftE is better than AoE + any number of spirits.

GftE:
+8-12ish damage per hit.
4.5s per use

DPS w/ 1 MM: 27
DPS w/ 2 MMs: 51

AoE:
+22ish damage per hit
8.5s per use
1.75s casting time (effectively losing out on 1.5 attacks that could be made during the time).

DPS w/ 4 spirits: 10 - spear dps / 5
DPS w/ 8 spirits: 21 - spear dps /5

So its flat out much worse straight off the bat even comparing 1 MM vs 2 spirit spitters. On top of that, if you are doing any appreciable damage with the spear you easily lose half of AoE's effectiveness due to the fact that you aren't attacking during it.

Also, while not really meaningful to the discussion, GftE scales a heck of a lot better with increased adrenaline gain abilities. A paragon with +100% adrenaline can make every single minion hit a critical. Of course, necromancer primaries can't use Focused Anger so thats a non-issue in this case.

Anthem of Weakness is just stupid to use, Necromancers have Enfeebling Blood which is 100x better and one of the strongest anti-physical skills in the game.

Intentionally letting minions die just to use death nova is horrible compared to simply letting minions sit around buffed with EBSoH smacking things to death, especially when you add in GftE. Death Nova is a supplement to damage, not the primary source.